The Beall Clock Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rocketcaver on March 26, 2009, 07:13:26 PM

Title: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on March 26, 2009, 07:13:26 PM
Hello all from Southern Illinois!
I have been interested in clocks since I was a kid in the 60's.
Yes I remember the 60's, does that mean I wasn't really there?
Anyway I have never built a clock, hoping to get lots of good info here.
I've had the Thomas Wooden Clock plans for many years, bought about 1990 and never built it.
I have the bug again now so I better get started.
A question, I have a small bandsaw but no scroll saw.
Must one spend many hundreds of $$$ on an expensive Dewalt, or will the $100 Skill saw do the job?
Also, for later I think I can get a copy of the Spring '07 Scrollsaw magazine with the clock plans in.
I found the drawing updates, is this combination all one needs to build that clock or is it better to just order the plans?
Sorry for the newbee questions, I'm sure I'll have more later.
I have been going through all the old posts, lots of good stuff there.
I notice however that posting has gotten slim lately, hope that doesn't mean that folks have dropped away.
Les
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: chuckknight on March 28, 2009, 10:42:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEL71yn1Cno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSuBodOfz7I

I have tried cutting gears on a scrollsaw, with a spiral blade.  It works pretty well, but the edges are less precise than I wanted.  (my patience is not eternal)  And, no, thanks to that lack of patience I've not yet completed a clock...but I'm hopeful to one day build one.

Of course, plans might help. 

My attempts, thus far, are just experimental gear trains...just for the fun of it.

My next attempt at a gear train will be cut on a bandsaw.

Eventually I'll build an actual clock!

Chuck
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on March 29, 2009, 06:20:27 AM
Hi Chuck!
Thanks for the YouTube links, I had already found them.
They prompted me to try the band saw method, and it actually works quite well.
I bought a sheet of 9 ply 1/2" birch at the hardware store and made a few test gears.
Takes a bit of file work to clean them up, but the band saw is going to be my gear cutter for a while I think.
Too bad the ply is full of voids making the gears unsuitable for a clock.
I had read about this and expected it, but it was disappointing all the same.
Believe it or not I have actually found a few sets of free wooden gear clock plans on the internet.
Some are a little advanced for me, but I'm keeping them for future use.
Most were here in the links area, some I found elsewhere.
I can post the links here if you like.
I suspect that the spiral blade is not the best choice for precision scroll saw work, better to use a regular fine blade.  This is just what I have gleaned from reading, I still don't have a scroll saw.
I bought a 3/8" wide fine tooth blade for my 9" table-top band saw and it seems to work fine.
Les

Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on March 31, 2009, 01:27:51 PM
Welcome to the club Les,

I have a cheap bandsaw and a cheap scroll saw.  The bandsaw definately makes smoother cuts.  I don't really care for the up-down vibrations of the scroll saw.  The scroll saw's only advantage would be cutting the spokes. 

The 1/2" birch does not sound like true baltic birch, just birch outer layers over generic plywood.  I have been using 0.2" (5mm) birch plywood from Home Depot for my gear testing.  There are 3 inner plys with very thin birch on the outside and very few voids.  The cost is about $25 for a full 4'x8' sheet.  The only disadvantage I see is that it warps slightly (maybe 1/2" across 24") relative to true baltic birch that seems to remain perfectly flat.  My first clock will use 1 thickness for the large gears and 2 thicknesses glued together for the pinions.  The next clock (after the experimentation slows down) will probably be made using 1/4" true BB for the large gears and 3/8" BB for the pinions.

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on March 31, 2009, 06:10:38 PM
Hi Steve!
The plywood I bought was from Home Depot but it was 9 ply.
The outer plies are VERY thin and tend to tear off very easily.  I looked at the 3 and 5 ply but passed them up.
I have some real b/bb grade Baltic Birch ordered from here:  http://www.woodnshop.com/  it should arrive in a day or two.
Meanwhile I'm making test gears from the Home Depot stuff and just ignoring the voids.
If I can get a fair escape wheel made I'm thinking about setting it up with a weight and pendulum to see if I can get it to run.  I figure it's good practice.
Les
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on March 31, 2009, 07:28:38 PM
By the way, I have noticed on the plywood that the bandsaw leaves a pretty ragged edge on the under side and in places the bottom layer of veneer pulls off.
Is there a way to prevent this?
I tried going slow, but it still happens.
I am using the finest tooth blade I could find and it cuts like a dream, just leaves the bottom edge ragged.
I can clean it up with a file, but it's a bother.  And it looks bad where the veneer pulls off.
A buddy said to mask off the underside with masking tape or something, hopefully that will help hold things together.  I haven't had a chance to try that yet.
Suggestions?
Title: Cutting Wheel Teeth with Bandsaw
Post by: bobledoux on April 01, 2009, 06:43:04 AM
Check Clayton Boyer's site:

http://lisaboyer.com/Claytonsite/frequentquestions.htm

He uses a band saw to rough cut teeth and finishes off with a bench top belt sander.  Its the kind Harbor Freight sells for $39 that takes one inch wide belts.  I bought a $400 Dewalt scroll saw to make my clocks and I use it only for crossing out the wheels.

Boyer is happy to answer questions by e-mail.

Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on April 01, 2009, 08:31:15 AM
By the way, I have noticed on the plywood that the bandsaw leaves a pretty ragged edge on the under side and in places the bottom layer of veneer pulls off.

Sounds like a good use for a sacrificial bottom layer.  Maybe a piece of masonite or cheap 1/8" plywood would help.

I have purchased 2 sheets of the 5mm Home Depot plywood.  One seemed to hold together better than the other.  Maybe it was just a lucky batch. 

I occationally get large chips of the outer ply that break loose when I cut real baltic birch.  Usually I can find them and glue them back in.  I cut my gears using a CNC router, so the steps will be different.  The teeth get fuzzier with more chips when the bit starts getting dull.  I am still trying to find the perfect recipe for my system. 

Steve
Title: Re: Cutting Wheel Teeth with Bandsaw
Post by: steve323 on April 01, 2009, 08:41:51 AM
Check Clayton Boyer's site:

http://lisaboyer.com/Claytonsite/frequentquestions.htm

He uses a band saw to rough cut teeth and finishes off with a bench top belt sander.  Its the kind Harbor Freight sells for $39 that takes one inch wide belts. 

I tried one of the $39 Harbor Freight belt sanders and ended up returning it.  The belt wobbled from side to side when any pressure was applied.  I upgraded to one for around $100 from Grizzly that is significantly better.  I use a fine grit paper to smooth the teeth. 

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on April 01, 2009, 12:06:00 PM
Ah, good information folks, thanks.
I have been considering this sander:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-x-30-Belt-5-Disc-Sander/H6070

I've been thinking about just using a coping saw to cross out the wheels for now.
I figure I can use the excercise, and better use the money saved for other things.
If I get "The Bug" from this project I might look into getting a scroll saw, but I doubt I'll spend the big bucks for a DeWalt.
Thanks also for the link to Clayton's site.
I have been to his site before but hadn't read the whole FAQ.
Lots of great stuff there.
Sounds like the sacrafical bottom layer is the way to go.
Of course the problem is on the back of the wheel where nobody will ever see it, but I will know it's there.
Les
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on April 01, 2009, 01:26:14 PM
I have been considering this sander:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-x-30-Belt-5-Disc-Sander/H6070

I can't comment on that sander.  H3140 looks like the Harbor Freight model.  Not sure if H6070 is identical except for the added disk sander. 

I have a 42" sander that doesn't appear on the Grizzly site anymore.  H8192 appears to be an improved version of the one I have. 

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: BrianC on April 01, 2009, 03:48:13 PM
By the way, I have noticed on the plywood that the bandsaw leaves a pretty ragged edge on the under side and in places the bottom layer of veneer pulls off.
Is there a way to prevent this?

Try using a backer under the piece, double-sticky tape (where your cut line is) works OK for this or (better) screw'em together - just make sure they stay in very tight contact.

By the way, if you want the BEST plywood, get Finnish Birch plywood, I just got some 1/4" that has 12 (count 'em, 12) plies.

And, I just got (GLOAT!) a new DeWalt DW788 scroll saw that cuts much smoother than my 14" band saw.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on April 01, 2009, 08:57:11 PM
Steve,
Hey, I like the looks of the H8192, thanks.

Brian,
Congrats on the new DeWalt.
I'm sure it cuts like a dream, but I'll have to make due with what I have.
This is just one of many hobbies for me, so I have to watch my cash outflow.
12 plies in 1/4"?  Wow.  I'll just be glad to get my 9 ply 1/2".
Thanks for the idea of the backer plate.
Les
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on April 02, 2009, 09:08:15 AM
By the way, if you want the BEST plywood, get Finnish Birch plywood, I just got some 1/4" that has 12 (count 'em, 12) plies.

Where did you get the plywood?  I would like to try some.

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: BrianC on April 02, 2009, 06:50:53 PM
Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/wp/plywood.html (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/wp/plywood.html)
Check their other stuff, too, like Aircraft quality Sitka Spruce - beautiful, absolutely straight grained - perfect for pendulums.

BrianC
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on April 02, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
That looks like VERY NICE wood!  It must be a pleasure to work with.
I got my 9 ply Baltic Birch today and it's SOOOO much nicer than the Home Depot stuff.
I cut a gear from it tonight and it doesn't shred on the bottom layer at all like the other stuff did.
And no voids, that's really nice.
I talked to my uncle today and mentioned my clock project.  He offered to let me borrow his DeWalt scroll saw.
Seems it's just gathering dust, he has barely used it since he bought it a few years ago.
I have no idea what model it is, but beggars can't be choosers.
It's nice to have relatives with money.  Next best thing to having it yourself.
Les
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: bobledoux on April 03, 2009, 07:02:07 AM
You will like the Dewalt.  It is vibration free which is important for precise cuts.  It is considered, by many, to be the best value for the money on the market.  It matches scroll saws that cost more than $1000.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on April 04, 2009, 06:33:43 AM
I am looking forward to using the DeWalt!
Now that I am ready to get started I have another question.
When cutting gears using the plans as a template should one cut & file "to" the line, or should the line be gone when you are finishde?
The plans I have do not say.
Les
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: BrianC on April 04, 2009, 04:26:35 PM
Generally speaking, if the plans don't say otherwise, remove half of the line.

BrianC
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on April 04, 2009, 04:40:03 PM
Oh, I see.
Thanks.
Les
Title: Newbee introduction
Post by: joguilt09 on January 22, 2010, 02:43:43 PM
I am brand new here. It appears to be a
 fantastic place

Im glad.

And to think I wound up on this forum
as I was searching for google images How uncanny is that?

I hope  to share my thoughts here

Best of luck
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Luka Jakic on June 14, 2011, 01:00:54 PM
Hello guys
I am new here.
English is not my mothers language so it can happen that I will spell something incorect but I will try to write So it can be readable.
I am from Slovenia and I am a woodworker/cabinet maker with my own firm.
I have done only one project for now.
I found garrys gresham web site few years ago. I fall in love with his CLOCK 2003.
Back than I was stil in secondary school.
Then it came last year and we had this subject projecting and managing.
We had to think up one project that we would draw and then make all production papirs.After that we wuld make that product at practical teaching.

I chosee wooden gear clock.
All the teachers looked at me like I am a little crazy.

For the gears I used garrys clock2003 but I have made them 60% larger than original
But for the base I did something crazy I used wall clock gear and inplement it in standing clock.
I make up my own design and dimension.
At that itme clock did not run.
For the face of clock I used maple and for stand I used american walnut.
Gears were made from acacia wenner from which I made plywood 12mm thick
All this was cut out and driled with HOLZHER CNC Machining center with 4axis.

And now I finaly decided that I am going to finishe this project.
Gears did not turn to be well made from acacia weener they all look like propelers.
I will change the material I will use KERROCK something like Corean fi anyone knows it. It is absolutly homogenus
And then I will also use 10mm or 12mm metal rods for carrying the gears and ball bearings on each side of this rood
For the finish first pendulum is too short I have to make it longer and I will move it to the tip of the triangel.

Pendulum is shaped as a trianfel cut out of ball pictures comming sun and weights are triangels all this is made of american walnut.


But I have next problem the weights.
One will go dow the slope on ball berings for less friction one was designed to fall free biu I do not know how much weight I have to put on them??
Here is the 3D view http://www.datoteka.si/file/5879/clock-2003-modified-pdf.html

this is from face http://www.datoteka.si/file/5880/Lux225-jpeg.html
This are gears from side http://www.datoteka.si/file/5881/Lux226-jpeg.html
This is close look   http://www.datoteka.si/file/5882/Lux227-jpeg.html
And dis is direct face   http://www.datoteka.si/file/5883/Lux228-jpeg.html

As you can see ther are weights and pendulum missing.
It is simple reason for that. I have to disasemble it and then correct my problems and then asemble it back again.

This is it for now.
I will write to yo when i start my repair.

Greetings

Luka
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Joe Redburn on December 10, 2011, 10:32:28 AM
Rocketcaver
 I have copy of the Scrollsaw Mag and would trade you a copy of the plans for a copy of the plans for your Thomas plans.
I have a woodworking shop in SW Florida and  I use a home built CNC machine to build clocks and clock parts.
http://www.woodenclockparts.com (http://www.woodenclockparts.com)
If you ever need precision parts made just drop me a line.
Regards
Joe
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on January 27, 2012, 10:56:20 AM
Hello again folks!
Lots  of stuff happened since I was on here last.   I moved for one, and most of my workshop stuff is still in boxes and piles here and there.
Work is progressing on the new workshop though, and hopefully I'll get everything lined out soon so I can take up some of my old projects.
I never got much further with my clock project, that's something I really want to get back to.  I found my plywood last weekend out in the barn, and it has all warped, even the pricey Baltic Birch, darn it! 
I'll be spending some time on the forum here in the next couple weeks or so, catching up on what everyone has been up to, then I might have a few more questions as I get my shop set back up.
I just thought I would check in and say "hi".
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: chuckknight on January 28, 2012, 09:28:51 AM
Well, well, well...welcome back!

I'm in a similar situation.  The mind is willing, but I keep running out of hours in which to do hobbies.  Maybe my first clock should have 26 hours, instead of 24?  :D

Just got a benchtop belt sander at Harbor Freight, this week, with sanding of pallet faces in mind, so maybe my craftsmanship will improve.  Maybe, in fact, I might be able to actually finish an escapement!
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on January 28, 2012, 09:40:04 AM
Thanks!
Which HF belt sander did you get?  I have been looking at such things, I need to make up my mind and lay down some cash.  I would be interested in a review of your sander.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on February 07, 2012, 12:44:58 PM
Looking again at my Baltic plywood, it's not warped after all.  It's these dratted lineless bifocal glasses, they make everything look crooked.
I had gotted used to them and completely forgotten about that effect until I started looking at drawings and "straight" lines again.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: chuckknight on February 21, 2012, 10:20:06 PM
Thanks!
Which HF belt sander did you get?  I have been looking at such things, I need to make up my mind and lay down some cash.  I would be interested in a review of your sander.
I got this one.  http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-x-30-inch-belt-sander-2485.html

It finally is out of the box, and has been powered up.  Construction seems generally pretty good, and a jeweler friend uses an identical unit for roughing shapes, etc.  In fact, he used it to grind down a wristwatch dial, just the other day.  Seems pretty decent.

But, I've not actually *used* it yet, myself.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on February 25, 2012, 07:54:00 AM
Oh, cool!  That's very similar to the Grizzly one I was looking at.
Please do review it after you have used it a bit.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on February 12, 2014, 02:13:21 PM
Sigh.
Here it is nearly 2 years later and I still haven't built a clock.  2 surgeries and a host of other real life things keep knocking up all of my time and money.  I hope all you kind folks are still here.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Rocketcaver on February 16, 2014, 07:30:17 AM
Not much activity here on the forum I see.
Looking at the scroll saws at the local Lowes storelately, I was pretty much disappointed.  All they had were Porter Cable and Skill models, as I have to say that "not impressed" just doesn't cover it.  Looking around online, I see that the Porter Cable models actually do get a few good reviews, so I was considering one of them.  I decided to look at the Grizzly Tools site to see what they had to offer, and my eye kept being drawn to the Shop Fox model at the bottom of the page.  Some more surfing found some pretty good reviews, and I found it on Amazon cheaper, with free shipping, so Mr UPS man is due to make a visit to my house on Tuesday.  I know lots of folks here on the forum use a band saw for gear cutting, and I had a lot of fun making test gears with my little bandsaw, but the scroll saw just intruges me for some reason.  Hopefully the new scroll saw will help me get motivated to start on a working clock.  I have the MLT-13 plans from the magazine article, along with the correction pages, and still have the old Thomas Clock plans as mentioned before, I'll most likely start with one of those, after I work at least part of the way through the intro to scroll saw type book that I also ordered.  It happens to have a project or two that include making wooden gears, so that should be a help.
I plan to check in here now and then and post updates, though they might not be very frequent.  Hopefully there are a few folks left checking in and we can get some discussion going.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Mechanism Man on June 20, 2015, 02:58:00 PM
Ok, so there's not much activity here, but heck,  there's a lot of inspiration!
I've been building wooden geared orreries for the past few years and have been contemplating a clock for a good while, and having seen some the bits on here I'm definately going to give one a go.
I'm currently building a ludicrously complicated 2000 year old 60 geared monster (see my separate thread in general discussion), but once that is done I think a ludicrously complicated clock could well be on the cards. Can't wait!
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: jasc15 on June 23, 2015, 12:06:16 PM
I know lots of folks here on the forum use a band saw for gear cutting, and I had a lot of fun making test gears with my little bandsaw, but the scroll saw just intruges me for some reason.  Hopefully the new scroll saw will help me get motivated to start on a working clock.

I used a cheap scrollsaw myself, but experienced a lot of tearout on the back side of the plywood.  I just dealt with it, and faced those sides to the back of the clock.

Recently, however, I came across this technique of making involute gear profiles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDqc5xMM5cA), and have become enamored with it.  The only problem is that my gear teeth are too close together for the table saw blades I have, but there should be some thin-kerf blades available.  I don't have regular access to these tools, so I am just keeping mental notes on what to try once I start building again.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on July 01, 2015, 12:34:34 PM
Recently, however, I came across this technique of making involute gear profiles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDqc5xMM5cA), and have become enamored with it.  The only problem is that my gear teeth are too close together for the table saw blades I have, but there should be some thin-kerf blades available.  I don't have regular access to these tools, so I am just keeping mental notes on what to try once I start building again.

jasc15, you may be able to use a skilsaw blade in your table saw as a cheap way to get a really thin kerf.  Many of the 6.5" to 7.25" diameter blades have a 5/8" hole size and blade widths around 0.07".  I saw this on a woodworking site recently and the consensus was that it is safe.  Table saws spin at a lower RPM than circular saws.  You have to cut slower to make up for the lower RPMs and smaller blade diameter.

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: gorbo on August 28, 2015, 09:02:13 AM
Hi all

I am from Kidderminster, England
I have had a CNC router for a few years now and was looking for a new way of spending my time and came across Wooden clocks,
I have downloaded some plans from Brian Law (DXF) and rareing to go,

Between Workshop time I will be trolling through these pages and getting good advice

Regards

John
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: KKC on February 19, 2016, 01:20:20 PM
Greetings group. My name is Kevin.  Probably like most I found this forum while researching how to build wooden wheeled clocks.  I've wanted to build one for years and I'm getting close to having the time to do it.  I have purchased the clock kit from Woodline.com.   Not sure how I'm going to like it but it looks like a good starter to get my feet wet.  I have also purchased the PDF from Clayton Boyer's website on designing wooden wheeled clockworks.  I've read enough of it to be dangerous. 

I plan to mill around here and read up on as much info as I can. 

In the beginning I had wanted to build an over the top large 2 and 3 foot wheels clock but I am finding out that, that is not necessarily possible. 

I look forward to meeting all of you.

Kevin
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on February 24, 2016, 03:39:27 PM
Greetings group. My name is Kevin.  Probably like most I found this forum while researching how to build wooden wheeled clocks.  I've wanted to build one for years and I'm getting close to having the time to do it.  I have purchased the clock kit from Woodline.com.   Not sure how I'm going to like it but it looks like a good starter to get my feet wet.  I have also purchased the PDF from Clayton Boyer's website on designing wooden wheeled clockworks.  I've read enough of it to be dangerous. 

I plan to mill around here and read up on as much info as I can. 

In the beginning I had wanted to build an over the top large 2 and 3 foot wheels clock but I am finding out that, that is not necessarily possible. 

I look forward to meeting all of you.

Kevin

Welcome to the forum Kevin.  There is not a lot of real traffic after you filter out the spam, but I don't know of any other forums like this one.  I keep checking in every few weeks or whenever I get bored at work.

I also have the Woodline clock kit.  I really like the feedback you get when moving the wood through by hand.  You can adjust the cut speed as the bit gets slightly dull based on feel.  I also like the choices of plywood that they offer.  I think they made a compromise in the design by using a 60 or 64 tooth gear for both the great wheel and the 2nd wheel.  Most clock designs use a 64/8 ratio followed by a 60/8 set of gears between the escapement and the minute hand.  The Woodline kit cannot be adapted to include a true second hand.  It will be around 56 or 64 seconds per revolution.  Also, the Woodline plans have wood against wood bearing surfaces.  I am not that much of a purist and am willing to use steel arbors or even ball bearings to reduce friction.

You can certainly scale up any design to use larger wheels, but you have to change gear ratios or else keep the pendulum and escape wheel unchanged.  I would finish a clock or two before making too many drastic changes.

Let us know how you clock designs progress.

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: KKC on February 25, 2016, 07:07:48 AM
Hey Steve great to see there is some life on the board.  I assumed after I started looking around there was a heyday for this board and now isn't it.  LOL... But... If I can get people with more knowledge than me to check in from time to time and answer my stupid questions it will be worth my effort.  I love the looks of wood wheeled clocks.  I know very little but I want to get to a point I can design my own.

Like I said I bought the Clayton Boyer PDF "A Practical Guide to Designing Wooden Wheeled Clockworks. I'm reading through it but I'm struggling a little bit with some of his math.  Primarily understanding calculating Gear Ratios.  I have however been able to get other equations translated into some formulas in Excel.

I have access to AutoCAD so I can accurately draw any wheel or pinion I just have to get my head around how to they are drawn.  I kind of have my head around OD and PD.  But I figure that will come the more I study other pdf's on escapements.  I have found several.  I don't know if any of them are any good but I figure reading them won't hurt. 

I don't want to just build clocks from plans I buy online.  I can't sell those.  I want to learn how to design and create my own some day.  So I hope over time this board and knowledge in it can get me there.

Thanks a lot for posting. 

And please keep in touch!!! LOL...
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: jss on February 25, 2016, 12:58:04 PM

Here are a few suggestions to look for help understanding gear ratio in clocks.


right here discussion on suggested gears

http://www.beallclocks.com/index.php?topic=21.0

Garys clocks site revisited on gear math

http://garysclocks.sawdustcorner.com/clock-gear-math.html

Good animation
https://woodgears.ca/gear/ratio.html

http://www.noah.org/science/clock/

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/clocks-watches/clock4.htm

http://www.abbeyclock.com/Pendulum.html

http://www.izone1.com/sattlerclocks/upload/1129112690p.pdf

good reading to you ----jss
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: KKC on February 25, 2016, 01:37:21 PM
Awesome JSS... thanks a ton!!!
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on February 25, 2016, 02:57:40 PM
Thanks for the links jss, very cool stuff.

Kevin, how do you like the pdf from Clayton?  I may purchase it just to help out a fellow clockmaker.

I designed a few gears for my CNC router by starting with a profile generated from http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html  It generated a gear with thousands of tiny segments per tooth.  My CNC router took forever to cut because of the pauses between steps.  I imported the shape of a single tooth into my cad program and estimated it with 2 or 3 arcs, then arrayed this radially to generate the complete gear.  This cut gears much faster that were just as accurate.  I still prefer the feedback from manually cutting gears with the Woodline kit, although you are limited to just the gear sizes in the kit.

I will check in more often if there are other active users.  Thanks for joining KKC.

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: jss on February 25, 2016, 03:38:10 PM
Steve

In autocad look at the use of the region or boundary command to reduce the small arc problem
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: KKC on February 26, 2016, 08:40:55 AM
Thanks for the links jss, very cool stuff.

Kevin, how do you like the pdf from Clayton?  I may purchase it just to help out a fellow clockmaker.

I designed a few gears for my CNC router by starting with a profile generated from http://woodgears.ca/gear_cutting/template.html  It generated a gear with thousands of tiny segments per tooth.  My CNC router took forever to cut because of the pauses between steps.  I imported the shape of a single tooth into my cad program and estimated it with 2 or 3 arcs, then arrayed this radially to generate the complete gear.  This cut gears much faster that were just as accurate.  I still prefer the feedback from manually cutting gears with the Woodline kit, although you are limited to just the gear sizes in the kit.

I will check in more often if there are other active users.  Thanks for joining KKC.

Steve

Oh Steve... You have a CNC?  We are going to be such good friends... LOL... I have a ton of questions and thoughts about CNC.  So be looking on the General Board for my CNC thread I'll be posting later and we can start a discussion there for all to see. 

Now for your short line segments.  In AutoCAD there is a command called "Pedit".  Are you familiar with that command? You can select all the short little line segments and join them together into one polyline.  At least in the eyes of CAD.  I'm not sure how your CNC would see it.  Give it a try and let me know whatcha get.

I drew my first wheel in AutoCAD yesterday.  60 teeth.  I'm going to try to draw the matching pinion today.  I'll let you know how that goes. 

As far as Clayton's PDF I'm new at this so everything seems informative.  Is it worth $42.00? I don't think so. I've been able to find a lot of free info online that kind of covers the same stuff.  It's just explained differently.  It does however go into how to draw the wheels.  That's been helpful. 
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: Clean.machine on April 03, 2016, 08:50:11 AM
Hi
I use a cnc router to make my clocks.
If I were starting out again I think I would use the method described at http://www.spiralsbysteve.com/gears.php.
Steve sells an essay on his system for $20.
This appears to me to be a gear generator using a circular table saw. At various times in my career I have been involved in gear cutting including a gear 3 meters diameter. They involve moving the gear blank side ways while rotating it.
Model Engineer Magazine had a plan for a gear generator many years ago.
If you are just starting out it might be worth a look at the table saw method.
I will continue with the cnc router as I have it.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on April 03, 2016, 02:11:17 PM
Welcome to the forum Clean.machine.

I have the article by spiralsbysteve.  It is fairly decent and can sometimes be found when he has a sale for $15.  It cuts properly formed gears along the pitch circle.  The only thing I don't care for is that each tooth needs to be manually positioned before the start of each cut.  This seems like the biggest source for errors.

I think CNC is a much better way to go.

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: KKC on April 05, 2016, 07:51:25 AM
Hey Clean Machine. Welcome.  I'm unfamiliar with this method.  So i'll do some looking into it.  Thanks. But Steve you are saying it can/could incorporate errors?
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on April 06, 2016, 01:52:33 PM
Hi KKC,

The gear cutter from spiralsbysteve relies on starting each cut by manually lining up two lines and rotating the gear blank through the saw blade.  The step is repeated from the left and the right to produce both edges of a tooth.  It seems like this would introduce an error and some teeth may end up slightly wider than others.  I can't see any way to index the position using a dividing head or any other method to achieve perfectly spaced teeth.  They do show what appear to be nicely meshing gears.

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: KKC on April 07, 2016, 09:44:17 AM
Interesting concept.  Sounds like a finger getter too... Indexing would be the trick.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on April 07, 2016, 01:15:39 PM
Hi KKC,

Your fingers stay near the top so they should be safe on the larger gears.  Smaller pinions might be a different story.

I like the Woodline templates for cutting pinions out of hardwood.  You can start with 3/4" stock and only cut 1/2" deep.  Rip the remaining 1/4" off on the bandsaw.  This keeps the gear firmly attached without having to clean off double sided tape.  One of my future experiments is to try a router pantograph to see if it can be used with 4X sized templates to improve the accuracy even further.

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: KKC on April 08, 2016, 05:04:23 AM
Yeah now that I have found of special interest.  Pantograph looks to have a lot of possibility.  So keep me posted on how you come with that.  As things are starting to warm up I hope to get out to my garage and get my spring cleaning done so I can get started on my clock.  I can't WAIT!!!! I had another idea for my wheels.  Rather than cut out spokes on the inside.  I'm contemplating scrolling patterns that best explain my family.  So... Myself and my boys are Eagle Scouts.  So one wheel's center would have a scouting emblem of some kind scrolled into it. We love fishing so another wheel would have some kind of fishing emblem in it.  And so on.  Kind of make it a legacy clock.
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: steve323 on April 08, 2016, 11:39:39 AM
It is a great idea to make the gears special for you and your family.  Keep in mind that the end result should be balanced.  Maybe leave some additional wood around the rim that can be sanded off as needed.

One big difference between wood and brass clock gears is the amount of material left after cutting out the spokes.  Brass will not suffer ill effects from normal temperature or humidity variations.  They can leave very thin spokes and still be fully functional for hundreds of years.  The primary objective is to minimize weight.  Wood clock gears have to leave additional material to hold together with humidity changes.

Also keep in mind that the frame can be very elaborate.  It needs solid wood at a few critical points.  Everything else can be carved without any impact on clock functionality.

Steve
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: KKC on April 13, 2016, 10:01:24 AM
Those are all good points Steve. I had forgotten balance.  Thanks for reminding me. LOL...
Title: Re: Newbee introduction
Post by: panistefanin on June 05, 2017, 08:03:06 AM
I would like to read about it anymore. Prompt, what literature to study?
mybestwestern (https://employeeloginguides.com/mybestwestern/)